Monday, August 25, 2014

388 VIPS: Veteran Intelligence Persons for Sanity

This blog:

There is a group of about 60 former Intelligence persons who decided that they cannot bear all the lies that are spread buy the USA government.

The study certain 'hot cases' and give their ideas about it to the Media.

Ray McGovern is one of them, and probably the most well known one.
You will find his articles in many places: ICH and Global Research etc.

But here is was interviewed in a very casual way and maybe tyhat is why he was even more open than usually.

I have made notes and give roughly the time in the interview so that it is possible to listen to the real interview, just choosing you prefered subject.
The whole interview is close to 1 hour.

Here it is:  The interview.   ( I will have to re-write it later, for better understanding )

This is an interview with Ray McGovern.  (RG)
Show ”This can’t be happening.” By Dave Lindoff. (DL)

McGovern is: Retired CIA veteran,  Gave reports to G W Bush.
Member of:  VIPS: Veterans Intelligence  Professionals  for Sanity.  

Supposedly shot down by seperatist rebels with a Buk from Russia.
The US gave no propof, just ‘overwhelming circumstantial evidence’.
But there were  shot-holes inthe fusillage.
What is this, Ray ?

RG: About the Syrian gas attack:  Kerry said 35 times:  “We know.. we know…  etc.”
But we do not know.  
We know the Sarin gas was not the same gas as is in use at the Syrian army.
6 min
As an ex CIA man I am very happy and proud that some intelligence people said: “We aint gonna do another Irak”meaning: we will not again lie and so help to create a war.
So the best that Kerry could do on  the 30 august was : a government analysis.
None of the Intelligence stood behind it.  Even not Brennan backed it up.  Brennan was afraid for a revolt in the intelligence.
Sy Hersh showed it was the Turks who did it probably.
It also makes Israel safer.
It was a false flag to bring the US in a war against Assad?
My Young doughter of 10 p[ieced it together:  she said: so there was a red line, right?
The preident said: if Syria used chemical wepons, then he would have to change his politics.
9 min.
Well, to his credit Obama listened to Dempsey, and to other collegues. 
Within 20 hours after Kerry said “We know… we know “
Obama said: qwe do not have to do it now. I am going to Congress to ask permission.
RG: I was in the CNN building.  I met Wolfowitz and Lieberman:  The looked like on a funeral: were very unhappy that Obama did not go into Syria.

Ukr had everything to gain with the MH17 if they could blame it on the separatists.
RG: I think it may have been a mistake. I rule out the Russians as culprits.   They know what they do.
Could the separatists do it? I call them  federalists. 
If the Russians had given these wepons like Buk, they wqould send 35 Russian advisors to prevent something to happen by mistake.
So that leaves the Ukr.
They have these Buk’s.
I fit was a Buk.  The Russians said: it could be a
Ukr are not known for their professionalism.
There were people in uniforms, with beer bottles in the site.
Is that from your sources from intelligence ?
Is is reliable?

Yse: these guys refuse to do Irak2.

Irak was not a misstake: it was deliberately.
My disciple was corrupted. Then it was like this:  The president wants a war. So lets fabricate
the intelligence to give him a war.
15 min.
 Now the intelligence does not want to do this anymore.

Kerry was shut out of this chemicals deal.  Kerry was still arguing for wa r in Syria.
So a journalist asked: Is there anything that Syria can do to prevent invasion? “Kerry: give up their chemical weapons.
This was done in a few hours. Lavrov etc. :  we take chemical weapons from Syria.

Now again with MH17:; A huge accumulation of circumstantial evidence”
RG:  I do not believe it.  Show ius the evidence.
At VIPS we are with 60 people old intelligence people.
There is 0 possibility that we do not know what happened. Why do we not have a devcent respect and show who did it ?
Weather it was by mistake ofr by those fighter jets.  The fusillage was rid by machine gun fire.

I think that Putin and Lavrov let the USA have as much rope as they want. In a few weeks we will know more. ( said it on 6 august. Now 25 august: no info anymore )

20 min.
Ik was 27 jaar CIA analyst voor Rusland. Heb degres in Russian. Ik had nooit durven geloven dat er een tijd zou komen dat ik meer geloof hecht aan de uitspraken van de Rus Lavrov dan die van de Amerikaan Kelly.

Ik ben trots dat soimmige CIA mensen in opstand zijn gekomen tegen de politici. Dat ze geen prostitutes meer zijn.
In 2007: de CIA gaf een ‘estimate’ dat Iran zijn werk aan een atoombom heeft gestopt in 2003. ( Tom Finger)
Bush schreef in memoirs: “Dat was een grote tegenvaller. Ik kon geen aanval meer op Iran plegen.”
26 min:  Er was geen attack op de tweede nacht in de Golf van Tonkin.  Maar de president ging toch in oorlog. Zonder goede reden dus.

27 years I had protection
The Ho Chi min trail does not look like the Route 66 etc.
We know Ho Chi Min.   He wil not give up. Nobody has given up for bombing.
We thought that LBJ was convinced.
So : Pre3sidents don’t have to take our advise.

Russia feels the need to protect themselves. They do not want to endanger Crimea. 
Please disavow to take Ukraine, like you took 12 other countries before.
Get together with Putin. He is OK.
There could have been a one Europe.
31 min.
Papa Bush was OK.  He called Gorbachov.  I am not going to dance on the Berlin Wall.
Lets talk in Malta. Meet halfway.
In december: Malta.
In febr. James Baker:  We need you to accept Germany to be reunited.
Russia lost 45 million people in WW2.
They won the war !
Shevarnadze said: This is really hard.
Baker: “We promise not to move Nato one inch further east.”
But: it was not written down.  It was a Gentlemens agreement.
Russia agreed to a re-united Germany.

We know that you have 24 devisions ( 250.000 men) in East Germany.  We remember 1956 Hungary. We remember 1966 Prague.

Then Clinton came.  Bob Dole said:   “My East Eu frionds want to join Nato.”
Then Clinton said:  We can promise that to.
His advisors said: We cannot do that: a gentlements agreement.
Clinton: show me the paper.

So: 12 new countries joined Nato !  All from the east.

Later in 2008.  Bush jr.   Two Nato summits.  Rumours were:  UkraIne and Georgia  

Wikipeaks:  Our ambassador in Moscow , Bill Burns, aas called in by Lavrov.   Njet means njet.  This is a danger to our security!

2 monhs later: :  Ukraine and Gerogia will become members of Nato “

Then Saakashvilli:  …. 8-8- 2008.
Ukraine:  this happened in febr this year: coup  in 21 febr.  Nazi type people.  Want UKr in Nato.
That is a NoNo.

39 min.
There was nota an invasion from Russia: the troops were legally there.
The only reason that Crimea was part of Ukraine was Chroestjov.
It was a gift.  Just some reward for some work done.  There was no paperwork on it.  It was not important.

People do not read Putin’s speeches.  ( As we did read Breznew etc.)
One of the things that Putin speaks about is the anti missiles system we put up (against Iran !)
McGovern: There aint no Iranian missiles.  And the Geography does not fit.

So Putin in april said:   Ukr in nato is out of question.  But even more dangerous : the missiles : put on ships. Can sail into Black Sea.
Recalcitrant Poles anc Tjechs:  did nto like their country to be a goal.
So: put it on ships.
Real danger for Russia: Anti Ballistic Missile System.

Putin:  Our sailors visiting their Nato sailors in Sebastopol is not so fine. I prefer how it is now: They visit us in Sebastopol., They ask permission and can visit us.

47min :  Some Neocons speaknow about First Strike Capability.  FSC
They set up the ability to have the First strike.  PNAC: Cheney and Wolfowitz:  we want absolute power.
Russia knows there are crazy people around.
Gates:  Russians afraid we have FSC
We could knock outy their IPCM force befoire they could retaliate.
48 min.
What wil the Russians do if  that will become reality?
If there is an alarm, they will taken o risk and sentd their bombs.
Then the will react and send their atomic bombs !

It is far worse than Nixon.
Now we have a situation: the people wo are watching him are unrealiable.
No strong president around. No strong congress.  Obama is afraid of CIA and NSA.
Why is he afraid?
Read a book: JFK and the unspeakable: James Douglass.
Obama, 2 years ago, was meeting with a bunch of progressive people.  He finally got up andd said: “Don’t you remember what happened to dr King ? “

If he is afraid he should not have become president.
What do they have on him ?  God knows.

Frank Church: CIA abuses:  Hoover was …
They can do it.
Everybody has something to hide.

John Brennan. What he did during the torture stuff?  Need to know .
The whole thing is corrupt.  We must ge ton the street.  Get our bodies into the street, before it is too late.

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