Then: A man who lives across the street of Osama's hideout, in Abottabad, tells what he saw on the night of the raid. He says: only one of a total of 3 helicopters landed on Osama's yard, and when it took off, an explosion killed everydody: including Osama, IF he were aboard. Note: all the men in the helicopter spoke pashtun. The 2 other helicopters never landed.
Jan Verheul: Was this explosion done on purpose by the Americans?
If there were no Osama in the house, and the seals (Pakistani ?) came back empty-handed, was it necessary to kill them to prevent the secret ever coming out?
Interview with Osama bin Laden, 2 weeks after 911.
Osama denies his Involvement in 9/11, and firmly disapproves of the terror attack.
In blue: the full text of Pakistani paper's Sept 01 "exclusive" interview
Global Research Editor’s Note
We bring to the attention of our readers the following text of Osama bin Laden’s interview with Ummat, a Pakistani daily, published in Karachi on September 28, 2001.
It was translated into English by the BBC World Monitoring Service and made public on September 29, 2001.
The authenticity of this interview, which is available in recognized electronic news archives, is confirmed.
Osama bin Laden categorically denies his involvement in the 9/11 attacks.
Bin Laden’s statements in this interview are markedly different from those made in the alleged Osama video tapes.
In this interview, Osama bin Laden exhibits an understanding of US foreign policy. He expresses his views regarding the loss of life on 9/11. He also makes statements as to who, in his opinion, might be the likely perpetrator of the September 11 attacks.
This is an important text which has not been brought to the attention of Western public opinion.
We have highlighted key sections of this interview. It is our hope that the text of this interview, published barely a week before the onset of the war on Afghanistan, will contribute to a better understanding of the history of Al Qaeda, the role of Osama bin Laden and the tragic events of September 11, 2001.
Michel Chossudovsky, May 9, 2011
Full text of September 2001 Pakistani paper’s “exclusive” interview with Usamah Bin-Ladin
Ummat (in Urdu), Karachi, 28 September 2001, pp. 1 and 7.
Ummat (in Urdu), Karachi, 28 September 2001, pp. 1 and 7.
Ummat’s introduction
Kabul: Prominent Arab mojahed holy warrior Usamah Bin-Ladin has said that he or his al-Qa’idah group has nothing to do with the 11 September suicidal attacks in Washington and New York. He said the US government should find the attackers within the country. In an exclusive interview with daily “Ummat”, he said these attacks could be the act of those who are part of the American system and are rebelling against it and working for some other system. Or, Usamah said, this could be the act of those who want to make the current century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. Or, the American Jews, who are opposed to President Bush ever since the Florida elections, might be the masterminds of this act. There is also a great possibility of the involvement of US intelligence agencies, which need billions of dollars worth of funds every year. He said there is a government within the government in the United States.
The secret agencies, he said, should be asked as to who are behind the attacks. Usamah said support for attack on Afghanistan was a matter of need for some Muslim countries and compulsion for others. However, he said, he was thankful to the courageous people of Pakistan who erected a bulwark before the wrong forces. He added that the Islamic world was attaching great expectations with Pakistan and, in time of need, “we will protect this bulwark by sacrificing of lives”.
Following is the interview in full detail:
Ummat: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?
Usamah [Osama bin Laden]: In the name of Allah, the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the earth as an abode for peace, for the whole mankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and Momin true Muslim people of Pakistan who refused to believe in lie of the demon.
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children, and other people.
Such a practice is forbidden ever in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children, and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.
Such a practice is forbidden ever in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children, and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.
There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya, and Bosnia?
Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims .
The US has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates.
However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that, it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of United States, or the latter itself considers them as its enemies. Or the countries, which do not agree to become its slaves, such as China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria, and the former Russia as received .
Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed.
According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the US government has stated. But the Bush administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the US system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be any one, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the US itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.
Then there are intelligence agencies in the US, which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This funding issue was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger.
They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usamah and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush administration approved a budget of 40bn dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance.
Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the US secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the US Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other US president, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who made the attacks.
Ummat: A number of world countries have joined the call of the United States for launching an attack on Afghanistan. These also include a number of Muslim countries. Will Al-Qa’idah declare a jihad against these countries as well?
Usamah: I must say that my duty is just to awaken the Muslims; to tell them as to what is good for them and what is not. What does Islam says and what the enemies of Islam want?
Al-Qa’idah was set up to wage a jihad against infidelity, particularly to encounter the onslaught of the infidel countries against the Islamic states. Jihad is the sixth undeclared element of Islam. The first five being the basic holy words of Islam, prayers, fast, pilgrimage to Mecca, and giving alms Every anti-Islamic person is afraid of it. Al-Qa’idah wants to keep this element alive and active and make it part of the daily life of the Muslims. It wants to give it the status of worship. We are not against any Islamic country nor we consider a war against an Islamic country as jihad.
We are in favour of armed jihad only against those infidel countries, which are killing innocent Muslim men, women, and children just because they are Muslims. Supporting the US act is the need of some Muslim countries and the compulsion of others. However, they should think as to what will remain of their religious and moral position if they support the attack of the Christians and the Jews on a Muslim country like Afghanistan. The orders of Islamic shari’ah jurisprudence for such individuals, organizations, and countries are clear and all the scholars of the Muslim brotherhood are unanimous on them. We will do the same, which is being ordered by the Amir ol-Momenin the commander of the faithful Mola Omar and the Islamic scholars. The hearts of the people of Muslim countries are beating with the call of jihad. We are grateful to them.
Ummat: The losses caused in the attacks in New York and Washington have proved that giving an economic blow to the US is not too difficult. US experts admit that a few more such attacks can bring down the American economy. Why is al-Qa’idah not targeting their economic pillars?
Usamah: I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom. This system is totally in control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is simply that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid by them. So, the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the US is not uttering a single word.
Ummat: Why is harm not caused to the enemies of Islam through other means, apart from the armed struggle? For instance, inciting the Muslims to boycott Western products, banks, shipping lines, and TV channels.
Usamah: The first thing is that Western products could only be boycotted when the Muslim fraternity is fully awakened and organized. Secondly, the Muslim companies should become self-sufficient in producing goods equal to the products of Western companies. Economic boycott of the West is not possible unless economic self-sufficiency is attained and substitute products are brought out. You see that wealth is scattered all across the Muslim world but not a single TV channel has been acquired which can preach Islamic injunctions according to modern requirements and attain an international influence. Muslim traders and philanthropists should make it a point that if the weapon of public opinion is to be used, it is to be kept in the hand. Today’s world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done.
Ummat: The entire propaganda about your struggle has so far been made by the Western media. But no information is being received from your sources about the network of Al-Qa’idah and its jihadi successes. Would you comment?
Usamah: In fact, the Western media is left with nothing else. It has no other theme to survive for a long time. Then we have many other things to do. The struggle for jihad and the successes are for the sake of Allah and not to annoy His bondsmen. Our silence is our real propaganda. Rejections, explanations, or corrigendum only waste your time and through them, the enemy wants you to engage in things which are not of use to you. These things are pulling you away from your cause.
The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which make us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.
Ummat: What will the impact of the freeze of al-Qa’idah accounts by the US?
Usamah: God opens up ways for those who work for Him. Freezing of accounts will not make any difference for Al-Qa’idah or other jihad groups. With the grace of Allah, al-Qa’idah has more than three such alternative financial systems, which are all separate and totally independent from each other. This system is operating under the patronage of those who love jihad. What to say of the United States, even the combined world cannot budge these people from their path.
These people are not in hundreds but in thousands and millions. Al-Qa’idah comprises of such modern educated youths who are aware of the cracks inside the Western financial system as they are aware of the lines in their hands. These are the very flaws of the Western fiscal system, which are becoming a noose for it and this system could not recuperate in spite of the passage of so many days.
Ummat: Are there other safe areas other than Afghanistan, where you can continue jihad?
Usamah: There are areas in all parts of the world where strong jihadi forces are present, from Indonesia to Algeria, from Kabul to Chechnya, from Bosnia to Sudan, and from Burma to Kashmir. Then it is not the problem of my person. I am helpless fellowman of God, constantly in the fear of my accountability before God. It is not the question of Usamah but of Islam and, in Islam too, of jihad. Thanks to God, those waging a jihad can walk today with their heads raised. Jihad was still present when there was no Usamah and it will remain as such even when Usamah is no longer there. Allah opens up ways and creates loves in the hearts of people for those who walk on the path of Allah with their lives, property, and children. Believe it, through jihad, a man gets everything he desires. And the biggest desire of a Muslim is the after life. Martyrdom is the shortest way of attaining an eternal life.
Ummat: What do you say about the Pakistan government policy on Afghanistan attack?
Usamah: We are thankful to the Momin and valiant people of Pakistan who erected a blockade in front of the wrong forces and stood in the first file of battle. Pakistan is a great hope for the Islamic brotherhood. Its people are awakened, organized, and rich in the spirit of faith. They backed Afghanistan in its war against the Soviet Union and extended every help to the mojahedin and the Afghan people. Then these are very Pakistanis who are standing shoulder by shoulder with the Taleban. If such people emerge in just two countries, the domination of the West will diminish in a matter of days. Our hearts beat with Pakistan and, God forbid, if a difficult time comes we will protect it with our blood. Pakistan is sacred for us like a place of worship. We are the people of jihad and fighting for the defence of Pakistan is the best of all jihads to us. It does not matter for us as to who rules Pakistan. The important thing is that the spirit of jihad is alive and stronger in the hearts of the Pakistani people.
Copyright Ummat in Urdu, BBC translation in English, 2001
Read about Osama Bin Laden in Michel Chossudovsky’s international best-seller
According to Chossudovsky, the “war on terrorism” is a complete fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden, outwitted the $40 billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus. The “war on terrorism” is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final march to the “New World Order”, dominated by Wall Street and the U.S. military-industrial complex.
Order Directly from Global Research
========================================================
Below is the interview with Osama's neighbor, Muhammad Bashir.
Another neighbour has almost the same story to tell, except he has heard some shooting in the beginnning of the raid. Very interesting is the last part of the interview with this man, Jahangir Kahn, whre he explains that it would be almost impossible for Osama to live there 'unnoticed' by the army, as everybody new in the area has to show his ID all the time. Its an area that is restricted for the oustside public. Video: Click upper video.
My other blogs about Osama : http://tiny.cc/x1fnu ( mostly in Dutch)
Another neighbour has almost the same story to tell, except he has heard some shooting in the beginnning of the raid. Very interesting is the last part of the interview with this man, Jahangir Kahn, whre he explains that it would be almost impossible for Osama to live there 'unnoticed' by the army, as everybody new in the area has to show his ID all the time. Its an area that is restricted for the oustside public. Video: Click upper video.
My other blogs about Osama : http://tiny.cc/x1fnu ( mostly in Dutch)
Interview with Muhammad Bashir,
who lives next door to Abbottabad “compound”
of Osama
http://www.globalresearch.ca/pakistan-tv-report-contradicts-us-claim-of-bin-laden-s-death/25915
Pakistan TV Report Contradicts US Claim of Bin Laden’s Death
By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
Global Research, August 06, 2011
6 August 2011
In my recent article, “Creating Evidence Where There Is None,” about the
alleged killing of Osama bin Laden by a commando team of US Seals in
Abbottabad, Pakistan, I provided a link to a Pakistani National TV
interview with Muhammad Bashir, who lives next door to the alleged
“compound” of Osama bin Laden. I described the story that Bashir gave of
the “attack” and its enormous difference from the one told by the US
government. In Bashair’s account, every member of the landing party and
anyone brought from the house died when the helicopter exploded on
lift-off. I wrote that a qualified person could easily provide a
translation of the interview, but that no American print or TV news
organization had investigated Bashir’s account.
An attorney with a British Master of Laws degree in international law
and diplomacy, who was born in Pakistan, provided the translation below.
He writes: “I have no problem with being identified as the translator,
but would prefer to remain anonymous.”
The translator provides these definitions and clarifications:
“Gulley” is generally referred (in Urdu) to a sidewalk or pavement. Also
for the space between two houses.
“kanal” is a traditional unit of land area, so that one kanal equals
exactly 605 square yards or 1/8 Acre; this is equivalent to about
505.857 square meters.
Muhammad Bashir refers to himself as “We”. This is common respectable
language for the self; to use the plural term instead of singular. The
English language equivalent would be the “Royal, We”.
Urdu is the national language and lingua franca of Pakistan.
The translator:
I have translated the entire text of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs
I have tried my best to keep words in a chronological order, but in some
cases this is not possible, as in translation words must be replaced in
reverse order to make sense! However, I have had to put a few words in
brackets to clarify meaning. If you want to ask about any section –
please supply time stamp and I will supply a contextual text.
Video Transcript:
welcome back! – Muhammad Bashir, Abotabad Area, Bilal Town resident,
Looks like an ordinary person, but he is no ordinary person! Muhammad
Bashir, lives in Abotabad’s, Bilal Town Opposite Bin Laden’s House.
Night of 2nd May Muhammad Bashir was on the roof of his house,
whereupon, the entire OBL, American operation was seen with his own eyes.
Last night, when our team was in Abotabad, Bilal Town, near OBL house,
Muhammad Bashir approached me and said that:
“Sister, I want to tell you something that is a great burden on my heart
and conscience” – Listen to what he said:
00:59 Muhammad Bashir: I.. today… would like to comment about todays
Abotabad operation events, until now, what I am about to say, no person
has said.
01:08: Reporter: But, Muhammad Bashir sahib appeared frightened. While
speaking to me, Muhammad Bashir sahib phoned his relative; leader,
M.E.A. of Jamaat-e-islami, Abotabad, Abdul Razaq Abaasi on the phone.
01:21: reporter: Tell me your name and where do you live?
Muhammad Bashir: – One minute, first I need to speak to him…I am going
to give an interview, a complete interview. Shall I give a complete
interview or half?
Reporter: Complete! – complete!
Muhammad Bashir: I first need to phone him, I need to speak to him
Reporter: I could of…
01:39: Reporter: Muhammad Bashir sahib, on that night’s events of the
American operation, that took place, he expressed such comments about
circumstances that have never been expressed before, therefore, we
checked his ID card, his place of residence and we can confirm that he
definitely lives there and we also approached senior politicians and
asked about him, after hearing his comments, we were amazed – now you
watch what he said.
01:57: Muhammad Bashir: The events that happened are thus; we were
awake, we were not asleep.
02:00: Muhammad Bashir: a Helicopter came, and circled and dropped some
people there.
02:07: Muhammad Bashir: in that house… where they are saying; Osama
lives here, on that house’s roof, they dropped people, after that, the
helicopter returned and went back.
02:16: Reporter: How many people were they?
02:18: Muhammad Bashir: They were ten, twelve people
02:20: Muhammad Bashir: After that it left and for approximately 20
minutes, there behind us, on those mountains, it kept going around, the
top of the mountains.
02:27: After 20 minutes, it returned. When it returned, at that time
there were TWO more helicopters arrived. One came from the West and one
came from the North. When it approached for landing, after that…
At this point;Video cut and resumed:
02:41: Muhammad Bashir: that helicopter, there was an explosion within
it and there was fire within it, immediately, we came out and arrived
there. When we arrived, the helicopter was on fire, it was burning.
After that, about twenty minutes later the Army arrived, the police
arrived. They moved all of us back…
03:04: Muhammad Bashir: …and all the people inside it, all of them…we
think; if Osama was inside it, or inside this house – then who took him
to the Americans?
03:16: Muhammad Bashir: Because America…the helicopters that America is
saying; IT carried out the operation. If America did this operation and
it’s army came and it’s helicopter came, then that helicopter that came
from the American’s, within that, all the people that came, those people
with the explosion were finished, got destroyed!
03:35: Muhammad Bashir: Within it, there was fire, those people, all of
them died!
03:39: and if Osama was there, they would have put him in the
helicopter. Obviously, if the helicopter caught fire, Osama could have
died there. If their own people were gone, (dead) so could have Osama.
After that, the fallen helicopter was destroyed after this, how can
Osama be, with them in America? this is a strange thing!
Video cut & resumes
03:59: Muhammad Bashir: They are saying we killed Osama here. After
that, they picked him up and took him away.
04:04: Muhammad Bashir: PICKED HIM UP AND TOOK HIM AWAY – how did they
do this? This, what we are thinking!
04:07: Muhammad Bashir: The Americans’ helicopter that came, that fell
here and got destroyed!
04:09: Reporter: There was only ONE helicopter?
04:11: Muhammad Bashir: ONE helicopter landed down here, the second
helicopter came from above and went towards Mansera. It did not land. No
second helicopter landed!
04:20: Only ONE helicopter, that first dropped it’s passengers, the SAME
returned to pick the people and there was an explosion within it.
04:27: Reporter: People were inside it?
04:29: Muhammad Bashir: People were inside it!
04:30: Reporter: How do you know this?
04:32: Muhammad Bashir: These people, we seen them all
04:34: Reporter: In the helicopter… you saw dead people?
04:36: Muhammad Bashir: We saw dead people!
04:38: Reporter:How many people?
04:39: Muhammad Bashir: This, we could not count, within the compound
there was fire.
04:43: Muhammad Bashir: and we… the gate was open, we entered the gate,
at that time the Army had not arrived.
04:48: Muhammad Bashir: Police had not arrived. Some people from the
agencies, were present, but they did not prevent anybody, they kept
entering, every person was looking , now, nobody is saying, but everyone
from the mohalla (neighbourhood) and all the people present from the
mohalla arrived first. We saw the gate open, we entered inside, saw the
burning helicopter, the people inside were dead. After that everything
was lifted. Now, there is nothing there!
05:16: Reporter: How many dead bodies did you see?
05:18: Muhammad Bashir: Look, you cannot count, the dead bodies were in
pieces everything else was broken pieces, some here, some there, some
broken, some half, some like this.
05:27: Reporter: Tell me fully – what happened?
06:30: Reporter: Tell me the full events
05:31: Muhammad Bashir: I told you, this is…
05:32: Reporter: You did not…I cannot believe this, that’s why.
05:36: Muhammad Bashir: Look, what I have said – that’s it!
Video Cut!
05:39: Reporter: When you saw the American craft, (Helicopter) what did
you think, why they came here?
05:42: Muhammad Bashir: We thought… this is it…why did they came? we
thought why did they come? maybe..we… did not expect them to do
anything, we thought maybe our Army is arriving at some centre and the
army people were sleeping, there was no explosions or events taking
place, nothing was happening, everybody was sleeping, for 20 minutes or so…
06:05: Reporter: The craft landed in front of your house, how did you
feel about this?
06:08: Muhammad Bashir: I thought..just…understand…imagine..we thought
we’re dead!
Video cut:
06:13: Reporter: But, how did the Americans return?
06:16: Muhammad Bashir: This is what I am saying; their Craft came and
the helicopter was destroyed, HOW, could they return?
06:22: Reporter: Tell me this; you say, that you saw the dead bodies
yourself….
06:25: Muhammad Bashir: one more thing, Madam, may I tell you; The
people who were dropped from the craft, That walkway … that ..where our
gates are…they banged them hard…and shouted… don’t come out…don’t do
this, don’t do that, if you come out you will be shot..we will do this,
we will do that, all the people who were dropped, all of them spoke
Pashtu (Afgahni Language) – Pakhtun!
06:49: Reporter: Who were these people?
06:49: Muhammad Bashir: This I do not know! Those who were dropped from
the craft (helicopter), those people.
06:54: Reporter: This, somebody else told me – that they spoke Pashtu.
06:57: Muhammad Bashir: They WERE Pashtun! we do not know if they were
working for the Americans, we do not know if they were working for
Pakistan, we do not know if they were army people or civilian, what
people, BUT they SPOKE PASHTU!
07:07: Reporter: You said you heard they were asking for Osama?
07:09: Muhammad Bashir: No, they didn’t ask me about Osama, they just
said, do not come out, if you come out from your house, we will shoot you!
07:16: Reporter: Were these Pakistani people?
Muhammad Bashir: who?
07:18: Reporter: The ones who were saying that if you come out, we will
shoot you.
07:20: Muhammad Bashir: They said that in Pashtu!
07:22: Reporter: so did they..were you coming out…exactly where were
you, where was you standing when this happened?
07:26: Muhammad Bashir: Inside the house, on top of the roof, I was not
in the house, just on top of the (flat)roof
07:29: Reporter: from Above the roof these people in the helicopter…
07:30: Muhammad Bashir: I was on the roof, sitting, no, lying down, on
the roof,lying and watching this and what was happening
07:37: Reporter: Fear, was you not afraid? did you not think to phone
someone?
07:40: Muhammad Bashir: From the house, They were calling me from
downstairs, the children were calling me, come down, come down, and I
told them stop making noise! go into your rooms, I am watching what is
happening. Afterwards, I found out about this, that, Osama was killed here!
07:53: Reporter: How did you get inside? (the compound)
Muhammad Bashir: where?
Reporter: when there was fire.
Muhammad Bashir: the gate was open, when there was fire, the gate was open.
08:02: Reporter: The house gate was open?
08:03: Muhammad Bashir: The outer gate, the big gate, was open.
08:06: Reporter: You came from upstairs to downstairs?
08:08: Muhammad Bashir: I came down, from my own house into the gulley,
I didn’t go alone inside the other house, 200 other people went inside!
Everybody saw it!
08:15: Reporter: All 200 saw the dead bodies?
08:17: Muhammad Bashir: Everybody saw this.Whoever went inside they saw
everything!
08:20: Reporting:the events at that time that are in your mind, please
express them.
08:28: Muhammad Bashir: I have told you this and this, in my mind, this
is what I have seen, when we were there, when we entered the gate, When
the helicopter exploded, it scattered everywhere, one piece fell over
there, one fell here, one here, a lot of pieces fell in the gulley
outside, they reached up to the gulley and our house and also some
pieces managed to reach onto my roof. so, the area of the open space
there (in front of the house) is about four Kanal in size. It is a very
large compound. You cannot see all of it from one location. Four Kanal
is a big area, only in a small area you could possibly see everything.
There I saw some people, in broken pieces, someone’s leg, someone’s arm,
someone’s torso, someone’s head. Beside this, I did not see intensely,
who are they, how are they, because I thought that one of our own craft
had fallen and the people within it were our own people. Because they
spoke Pashtu they could be pakistani.
09:35: Muhammad Bashir: but language does not necessarily mean.. by
speaking it…the American language could be spoken, the agents can speak
all sorts of languages. It could be that it is the American army and
they could speak Pashtu and the people would think that it is our own
people.
09:54: Reporter: Seeing the dead bodies – did you not feel fear?
09:57: Muhammad Bashir: But we were thinking about ourselves at the
time, but seeing the dead bodies who felt frightened?
10:00: Reporter: When you went inside, what did you do after that, how
did you come out?
10:02: Muhammad Bashir: we came out, our Army reached there, when the
army arrived, they moved all the people back. Move aside, move aside! So
we moved aside.Then they closed the area down.
10:13: Reporter: did Rais see this?
Muhammad Bashir: What?
Reporter: where was your cousin?
10:18: Muhammad Bashir: My cousin was at that time in the house.
10:20: Reporter: Did he go with you?
10:21: Muhammad Bashir: He was with me, but I did not notice when he was
picked up.
10:28: Reporter: Has he returned yet?
10:29: Muhammad Bashir: Yes, he has returned. They picked him up and
took him away.
10:32: Reporter: What is he saying?
10:34:Muhammad Bashir: I have not met him yet, he is at home they will
not let him come out, we are not allowed to visit him, they will not let
him come out.We have not met.
10:40: Reporter: You was not able find out, but since when have you been
allowed out.
10:45: Muhammad Bashir: I did not go home, by going home…
Reporter:You have seen the fire you have seen the bodies how long did
you stay there?
Muhammad Bashir: approximately, after five or six minutes, I left and
came out..five, six minute..what happened …. the reason we left, was
that after we entered, there was another small explosion, I do not know
if the engine fail and there was another fire, it was a small explosion,
after this explosion all the people ran out.
11:06: Muhammad Bashir: when we went out, nobody let us go back in again.
11:11: Reporter: Besides you, why is nobody else saying these things?
why are you alone in this?
11:16: Muhammad Bashir: Look, what we have seen, that is what we are
saying and we are speaking for this reason that, we are sad that such
humble and nice people of our town, that has never seen such events, no
fighting, no arguments, no animosity, No murders, such nice people of
ours in this town and they have been branded as terrorists.
11:43: Reporter: Tell me; two helicopters came, lifted and took the rest
of the people?
11:46:Muhammad Bashir: No – they did not take the rest of the people,
because they did not even land, One came from the West and it left
towards the North, the one that came from the North, left towards the
South. They did not land!
12:00: Studio Reporter: these events that we showed you from Abotabad,
there are many more things that we discovered about the compound where
OBL was staying, there were vegetables planted there, what kind of
vegetables, the person who grows the vegetables is the cousin of this
person (Muhammad Bashir), whose interview we have shown. An
extraordinary thing that he has said and he has sworn repeatedly on the
veracity of his statement. this is from his own account and upon this
account do view this. Yesterday we found out and it has been confirmed
that there were two Ashfaq’s who lived there (in the compound): Mr
Arshad and Mr Tariq who went shopping locally and used to buy
international brands, the items they found in the house, dry dates,
dried meat and things like this, this person who you saw in the
interview in his house there was food from OBL’s house, he was given
Kaabli Pillau (Rice) and such items were presented to him, There the
view of local mosque people, what they think of OBL all these things we
will present to you in an exclusive program an important newsbeat,
todays time is finishing, do write to us at newsbeat@samaa.tv where you
can get other information as well and you can join us at newsbeat with
Fareeha Idrees thats my favourite bit, do write to us, the time is up
now, By your permission to leave, take care of yourself, In Allah’s care.
13:20: Reporter: I am now at standing in front of Abdullah Bin Zubair
Mosque, this is the same mosque that is within walking distance from
OBL’s house. Are you saying that if people found out that OBL was living
here, would they be happy?
1st man: Possibly, people could be happy.
2nd man: He wasn’t living here, but he was a Muslim, he believed in Allah.
End of translation
Anyone fluent in Urdu who wishes to dispute the translation should do so.
I asked the translator if he might contact the Pakistani news
organization and inquire if the reporters had further investigated
Bashir’s story. He replied that he could do so, but exactly 24 hours
later “for some unknown reason” the news organization started to
discredit Bashir by connecting “him to his cousin, who is accused of
receiving foodstuffs from the household of OBL.”
Bashir’s cousin is the person who, according to the reporter (see 12:00
time line) had a vegetable garden inside the wall of the alleged bin
Laden compound. Is it likely that with a hunted and dangerous person
hiding within, locals would be permitted to have vegetable gardens
inside the compound? The cousin’s vegetable garden obviously had to be
redefined as “receiving foodstuffs from OBL.”
The translator offers his view on the 13:20 timeline:
“The final seconds of the video clip contain random people to generate
and show some kind of sympathy with OBL in the district.
“It would be very difficult to find people in Pakistan who sympathise
with OBL or the Taliban. The only people who do sympathise are the poor
illiterate people who do not know about the religion and can easily be
convinced of a distorted version of Islam.
Therefore, the closing part of the video contains, out of context
expressions:
“1st man: Possibly, people could be happy. (Meaning it is possible that
SOME people could be happy.)
2nd man: He wasn’t living here, but he was a Muslim, he believed in
Allah. (Meaning; he claimed to be Muslim, so he must have believed in
Allah.)
“Therefore, it seems that although initially, the TV station was
overjoyed with this interview, they changed their tune, twenty four
hours later. (for some unknown reason.)”
Readers can arrive at their own conclusions. It seems clear that under
intense pressure and serious threats from the US government, the
Pakistani government fell in line with the US government’s claim that a
commando raid had killed bin Laden and all had returned safely, and that
the TV news organization also got the message to get in line.
It is likely that the many witnesses who observed the dead from the
helicopter crash have been warned to keep quiet. However, a news
organization, should one be so inclined, could certainly interview
Bashir and the 200 others who saw the dead bodies. A good reporter,
perhaps accompanied by trained psychologists, would be able to tell if
people were lying out of fear and encourage some to speak anonymously.
I am confident that no news organization believes that it could confront
such an important US national myth in this way. The killing of bin
Laden satisfies the emotional need for revenge and justice. In the
least, a news organization that challenged the government’s story would
be cut off from all government sources and be denounced by politicians
and a large percentage of the US population as an anti-American
terrorist-serving organization.
OBL’s death will remain one of those many “truths” that rest on nothing
but the government’s word.
